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Hall of Fame Makes Significant Changes
Posted: Fri Sep 04, 2026 8:45 am
by Atlasffa
Re: Hall of Fame Makes Significant Changes
Posted: Sat Sep 05, 2026 3:59 am
by Attyla
Willmark wrote: Fri Sep 04, 2026 6:48 pm
For decades I've questioned whether its the Hall of Fame or is it the Career of Fame because it varies depending on who the (especially) player is.
Case in point? Jim Kelly absolutely does not belong in the Hall of Fame:
https://www.pro-football-reference.com/ ... llJi00.htm
One very good year: 1990 and that was it (the only year he had interceptions below 10).
Very good to above average in the Regular Season.
Middling in the playoffs outside of 1990.
Downright horrific in the Super Bowl.
At time of retirement he held no records of note, only "bad" ones in the Super Bowl.
0-4 in the Super Bowl but Plunkett being 2-0 and not in? Thiesmann 1-0 and Sims at 1-0 in the SB and not in? So by the HOF thinking losing 4 straight Super Bowls is a more impressive feat than winning one or two?
Yeah...No.
Then there is the question of longevity? Aka the Gale Sayers/Terrell Davis criteria. Now, I'm fine with both being in if we are talking talent alone, but its another part of what is a HOF career?
So if Kelly is not worthy, what about Tarkenton? His stats were never great and he lost 3 SB's and only took his team to the playoffs 4 times.
Re: Hall of Fame Makes Significant Changes
Posted: Sat Sep 05, 2026 4:00 am
by FLORIDARAYDAH
Attyla wrote: Sat Sep 05, 2026 3:59 am
So if Kelly is not worthy, what about Tarkenton? His stats were never great and he lost 3 SB's and only took his team to the playoffs 4 times.
Both are quite worthy.
Re: Hall of Fame Makes Significant Changes
Posted: Sat Sep 05, 2026 4:08 am
by Attyla
FLORIDARAYDAH wrote: Sat Sep 05, 2026 4:00 am
Both are quite worthy.
I would agree, stats are important but so is impact. Kelly's ability to put his team on his back was legendary, and Tark changed the position quite a bit. Hell, Gale Sayers had 68 total games on his resume and played on really bad teams but his impact was huge. Terrell Davis is much the same. Sometimes you have to look beyond the stats
Re: Hall of Fame Makes Significant Changes
Posted: Sat Sep 05, 2026 4:37 am
by raidersince63
Kelley led his team to 4 consecutive SBs appearances and that alone, is an incredible and unmatched feat, and something we may never see again.
Re: Hall of Fame Makes Significant Changes
Posted: Sat Sep 05, 2026 4:43 am
by FLORIDARAYDAH
raidersince63 wrote: Sat Sep 05, 2026 4:37 am
Kelley led his team to 4 consecutive SBs appearances and that alone, is an incredible and unmatched feat, and something we may never see again.
The missed FG cost them a SB and changed the way they were viewed. What I wouldn't give for 1 let alone 4 in a row. They had a core of solid players on O who worked great together.
Re: Hall of Fame Makes Significant Changes
Posted: Sat Sep 05, 2026 5:32 am
by raidersince63
FLORIDARAYDAH wrote: Sat Sep 05, 2026 4:43 am
The missed FG cost them a SB and changed the way they were viewed. What I wouldn't give for 1 let alone 4 in a row. They had a core of solid players on O who worked great together.
Yup, and their defense was pretty damn good too.
Re: Hall of Fame Makes Significant Changes
Posted: Sat Sep 05, 2026 6:33 am
by Attyla
FLORIDARAYDAH wrote: Sat Sep 05, 2026 4:43 am
The missed FG cost them a SB and changed the way they were viewed. What I wouldn't give for 1 let alone 4 in a row. They had a core of solid players on O who worked great together.
Without looking I believe that was their first one vs the Giants. I do think Levy let them down with how he called the games. I don't think you can blame Kelly alone. Hell, if I am not mistaken, didn't Thomas lose his helmet which delayed his entry into the game and it became a bit of a distraction. I do know Norwood went into therapy over losing that game. We say we would love to have been in 4 consecutive dances, but I have a few Bills fan friends and they would disagree.
Hell, I still get a bit sick when I think about our loss. And I have our wins to celebrate. I cannot imagine rooting for a team that was as inept as that team was in their final game of those seasons.
Oh, and Kelly looks like hell these days. His cancer fight wrecked that guy. But he is a fighter and so far has beat the bastard back.
Re: Hall of Fame Makes Significant Changes
Posted: Sat Sep 05, 2026 8:08 am
by RN4L75
Attyla wrote: Sat Sep 05, 2026 3:59 am
So if Kelly is not worthy, what about Tarkenton? His stats were never great and he lost 3 SB's and only took his team to the playoffs 4 times.
I believe at the time of retirement Tarkenton held a lot of the all time QB records, passing yards, TD's, wins, rushing yards. That seems to be HOF worthy after the 5 year wait.
Re: Hall of Fame Makes Significant Changes
Posted: Sat Sep 05, 2026 8:10 am
by raiderboyron
He did dominate in the USFL for 2 years. Houston Gamblers. Ran the Mouse Davis " Run and Shoot" offense. And it is the "Pro" football Hall of Fame so his time there is taken into account I believe.
Edit: following Super Raiders post...
Re: Hall of Fame Makes Significant Changes
Posted: Sat Sep 05, 2026 8:27 am
by Attyla
RN4L75 wrote: Sat Sep 05, 2026 8:08 am
I believe at the time of retirement Tarkenton held a lot of the all time QB records, passing yards, TD's, wins, rushing yards. That seems to be HOF worthy after the 5 year wait.
He played 18 years. While not unheard of, he had those numbers because it was not common for guys to play that long. When he started out, guys had offseason jobs because the money was not like today so careers were shorter so they could roll into their regular jobs.
Don't get me wrong, he was good, and pretty accurate for his era and I would put him in, but based on he season over season results he was pretty average. Longevity is considered by the voters and they got it right with both him and Kelly
Re: Hall of Fame Makes Significant Changes
Posted: Sat Sep 05, 2026 9:18 am
by Oaktownonly
I couldn't stand the Bills back in the 90's but I loved their offense. I still love the no huddle offense but nobody does it like they did. TOP didn't mean crap to them. If you have a terrible offense you of course can't run it but theirs was really good. By the end of the 3rd quarter the defense was gassed.
Re: Hall of Fame Makes Significant Changes
Posted: Sat Sep 05, 2026 11:30 am
by Reno Hightower
I don't believe there should be any doubt regarding Jim Kelly or Fran Tarkenton for that matter. Troy Aikman's HOF credentials are often scrutinized, which is absurd.
Re: Hall of Fame Makes Significant Changes
Posted: Sat Sep 05, 2026 11:51 am
by raidersince63
Reno Hightower wrote: Sat Sep 05, 2026 11:30 am
I don't believe there should be any doubt regarding Jim Kelly or Fran Tarkenton for that matter. Troy Aikman's HOF credentials are often scrutinized, which is absurd.
Not to mention that at the time, the people that voted him in were basing their vote on the quality of QB play at the time (40 freaking years ago)
Tarkenton belongs in the HOF, period...as does Kelly.
Re: Hall of Fame Makes Significant Changes
Posted: Sat Sep 05, 2026 11:53 am
by Attyla
And then there is Namath, who made the HOF based on bullshit and three words
Re: Hall of Fame Makes Significant Changes
Posted: Sat Sep 05, 2026 12:51 pm
by raidersince63
Many people want to bass HOF induction of passing stats alone but there are other things to consider, one of which is historical importance and you simply cannot tell the story of the NFL without including Joe Namath.
With the huge upset of the Colt in SB 3 which is possibly the most notable NFL upset of all time, he helped legitimize the AFL which resulted in the merger of the NFL and AFL in 1970.
Namath is in the HOF and in the HOF he shall stay, and rightfully so.