Emo Andy Dalton after a trip to Sephora on Groundhog Day (Carr thread)
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RaiderandBulldog
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Attyla
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I keep hearing 35 but I think the number starts with a 4
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danchase45
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[quote=Jeremyturner1976 post_id=1055461]First, I am not saying 'do this', just thinking.
So - moneyball theory.
Let's say Carr gets 4 years at 35. So 140 million.
What if we were to frontload cap hits. For example - Carr 100 million cap hit this year, but then we only pay him 13.33 in '23, 24, and '25.
That gives us the 'rookie' QB advantage for going all in, without the risk of a rookie. It also gives us an 'extremely' valuable trade commodity if needed.[/quote]I think people are way too stressed out about a $35 million salary for Carr. We don't need to spread things out and it won't hurt us going forward. This year we are paying $30 million cap space for Carr and Ferrell. So giving Carr $35 million next year is about the same contract when we get rid of that horrible Gruden pick. We are actually going to have some bad contracts come off the books next year and will have major flexibility. The cap will keep on going up and a $35 million QB won't hurt us at all. If the new coaching staff believes in Carr the best thing you can do is push the money back and not front load a contract. I know we are used to front loaded contracts with Reggie, but this is not how many teams do it. They keep on pushing money back and play games with with salary cap.
So - moneyball theory.
Let's say Carr gets 4 years at 35. So 140 million.
What if we were to frontload cap hits. For example - Carr 100 million cap hit this year, but then we only pay him 13.33 in '23, 24, and '25.
That gives us the 'rookie' QB advantage for going all in, without the risk of a rookie. It also gives us an 'extremely' valuable trade commodity if needed.[/quote]I think people are way too stressed out about a $35 million salary for Carr. We don't need to spread things out and it won't hurt us going forward. This year we are paying $30 million cap space for Carr and Ferrell. So giving Carr $35 million next year is about the same contract when we get rid of that horrible Gruden pick. We are actually going to have some bad contracts come off the books next year and will have major flexibility. The cap will keep on going up and a $35 million QB won't hurt us at all. If the new coaching staff believes in Carr the best thing you can do is push the money back and not front load a contract. I know we are used to front loaded contracts with Reggie, but this is not how many teams do it. They keep on pushing money back and play games with with salary cap.
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Opoponax50
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[quote=BluegrassRaider post_id=1055430]We were only 22nd in time of possession last season so at least at first glance that argument isn't super strong but if you go back we do land middle of the league and better, I think in 19 we were top 10.
I tend to chalk much of that to the running game being stronger but you make a coherent case to dig into.[/quote]
I don't know what it says when I can make a better argument for Carr than his most ardent supporters, but it says something lol.
I tend to chalk much of that to the running game being stronger but you make a coherent case to dig into.[/quote]
I don't know what it says when I can make a better argument for Carr than his most ardent supporters, but it says something lol.
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Fade2SilverAndBlack
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[quote=Attyla post_id=1055471]I keep hearing 35 but I think the number starts with a 4[/quote]Someone just impale me on the biggest spiked fence they can find....
I don't mean as a person I mean as a player. I have never disliked a Raiders player more than I do Carr.....
Where is Rainman?? I need that anti Carr forum he used to post the link for....
I don't mean as a person I mean as a player. I have never disliked a Raiders player more than I do Carr.....
Where is Rainman?? I need that anti Carr forum he used to post the link for....
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Jeremyturner1976
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[quote=danchase45 post_id=1055488]I think people are way too stressed out about a $35 million salary for Carr. We don't need to spread things out and it won't hurt us going forward. This year we are paying $30 million cap space for Carr and Ferrell. So giving Carr $35 million next year is about the same contract when we get rid of that horrible Gruden pick. We are actually going to have some bad contracts come off the books next year and will have major flexibility. The cap will keep on going up and a $35 million QB won't hurt us at all. If the new coaching staff believes in Carr the best thing you can do is push the money back and not front load a contract. I know we are used to front loaded contracts with Reggie, but this is not how many teams do it. They keep on pushing money back and play games with with salary cap.[/quote]35 is also pretty close to Chandler Jones and Derek Carr. We can play whatabout all day if you want, that is all your argument is. How about Renfrow and Carr, Crosby and Carr, or Waller and Carr? See where your logic fails yet?
Just because the previous coach was awful, that does not mean money does not matter. At some point we miss out on team talent by vastly overpaying a Kirk Cousins level QB.
Limited resources always matter.
I believe we can win the division in '24 and '25 with Carr on a 13 million or so contract (That cost to production level would be a huge value to this team). Those other QBs are only getting more expensive.
I truly believe at a cost of 35-40 we never see an AFC championship game. The value to production is just not there - Carr requires a top level team to compete. 22 million more in cap is two top level starters. Two valuable players which the team won't have by overpaying Carr - and Carr won't make up for, well because he is just average.
No team in the history of the NFL has won a SuperBowl paying a QB more than 15% of the cap. Since the salary cap, 8.1% is the average cap hit of SuperBowl winning QBs. It takes a team to win the big game. Top to bottom, the talent must be there and vet minimums won't get it done.
This is a means of giving the advantage back to our team. It sounds simple enough and the owner/coach would just have to agree.
Again, no chance it happens - but I guarantee we would be a better team in '24 and '25 if we did - perhaps good enough to open a SuperBowl window in fact, given the cap hits of our competing top AFC QBs in those years.
For those teams that are just not willing to try at a rookie QB, the strategy above is sound and probably the smartest 'safe' move we could make.
Just because the previous coach was awful, that does not mean money does not matter. At some point we miss out on team talent by vastly overpaying a Kirk Cousins level QB.
Limited resources always matter.
I believe we can win the division in '24 and '25 with Carr on a 13 million or so contract (That cost to production level would be a huge value to this team). Those other QBs are only getting more expensive.
I truly believe at a cost of 35-40 we never see an AFC championship game. The value to production is just not there - Carr requires a top level team to compete. 22 million more in cap is two top level starters. Two valuable players which the team won't have by overpaying Carr - and Carr won't make up for, well because he is just average.
No team in the history of the NFL has won a SuperBowl paying a QB more than 15% of the cap. Since the salary cap, 8.1% is the average cap hit of SuperBowl winning QBs. It takes a team to win the big game. Top to bottom, the talent must be there and vet minimums won't get it done.
This is a means of giving the advantage back to our team. It sounds simple enough and the owner/coach would just have to agree.
Again, no chance it happens - but I guarantee we would be a better team in '24 and '25 if we did - perhaps good enough to open a SuperBowl window in fact, given the cap hits of our competing top AFC QBs in those years.
For those teams that are just not willing to try at a rookie QB, the strategy above is sound and probably the smartest 'safe' move we could make.
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Jeremyturner1976
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[quote=Attyla post_id=1055471]I keep hearing 35 but I think the number starts with a 4[/quote]Kirk Cousin equals Derek Carr with more TD passes. Derek Carr equals Kirk Cousins with a better two minute drill. Just going from there for now.
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Attyla
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[quote=Jeremyturner1976 post_id=1055578]Kirk Cousin equals Derek Carr with more TD passes. Derek Carr equals Kirk Cousins with a better two minute drill. Just going from there for now.[/quote]I get that, I am just going on record
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danchase45
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[quote=Jeremyturner1976 post_id=1055565]]35 is also pretty close to Chandler Jones and Derek Carr. We can play whatabout all day if you want, that is all your argument is. How about Renfrow and Carr, Crosby and Carr, or Waller and Carr? See where your logic fails yet[/quote]If you draft well or make wise FA signings, you can make one or two bad contracts work. The issue is we have had the worst draft history the last 20 years of almost any franchise. You can't compete if an entire draft class consists of Conley, Melifonwu, Vanderdoes, Sharpe, Lee, Luani, Ware, Hood, and Hester. It makes me sick to see our drafting the last 5 years except for Miller, Renfrow, and Crosby. It was a shame about Ruggs, he was turning into a hell of a WR and had the ability to high point the ball and make tough catches.
The Rams just won the Superbowl with $45 million and 25% of their cap devoted to QB. You can't forget the $25 million that Goff counted last year. Tom Brady's deal and others look great, but they just push back money until later years. Ziegler knows what he is doing and they will be smart about the cap. There are many ways to do things in the NFL right now and be successful.
The Rams just won the Superbowl with $45 million and 25% of their cap devoted to QB. You can't forget the $25 million that Goff counted last year. Tom Brady's deal and others look great, but they just push back money until later years. Ziegler knows what he is doing and they will be smart about the cap. There are many ways to do things in the NFL right now and be successful.
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Raider727
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[quote=danchase45 post_id=1055612]If you draft well or make wise FA signings, you can make one or two bad contracts work. The issue is we have had the worst draft history the last 20 years of almost any franchise. You can't compete if an entire draft class consists of Conley, Melifonwu, Vanderdoes, Sharpe, Lee, Luani, Ware, Hood, and Hester. It makes me sick to see our drafting the last 5 years except for Miller, Renfrow, and Crosby. It was a shame about Ruggs, he was turning into a hell of a WR and had the ability to high point the ball and make tough catches.
The Rams just won the Superbowl with $45 million and 25% of their cap devoted to QB. You can't forget the $25 million that Goff counted last year. Tom Brady's deal and others look great, but they just push back money until later years. Ziegler knows what he is doing and they will be smart about the cap. There are many ways to do things in the NFL right now and be successful.[/quote]Mack is a charger now, might want to change that avatar.
The Rams just won the Superbowl with $45 million and 25% of their cap devoted to QB. You can't forget the $25 million that Goff counted last year. Tom Brady's deal and others look great, but they just push back money until later years. Ziegler knows what he is doing and they will be smart about the cap. There are many ways to do things in the NFL right now and be successful.[/quote]Mack is a charger now, might want to change that avatar.
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danchase45
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[quote=Raider727 post_id=1055618]Mack is a charger now, might want to change that avatar.[/quote]I am shocked I even was able to post an avatar with my internet skillz. It is time for a change! I will probably spend about thirty minutes figuring it out.
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Opoponax50
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Tick... tick... tick...
There's a Carr-bomb coming.
Tick... tick... tick...
There's a Carr-bomb coming.
Tick... tick... tick...
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srv5490
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I'm going to go on record here and say that if Carr gets extended for anything more than $25M per year, I will eat my hat and submit video evidence to this forum as proof.
For you rules sticklers, I will clarify a few details:
- By "my", understand that I am hereby legally defining this term as "Selma Hayek's".
- I am using the term "hat" euphemistically to denote an anatomical landmark that I will disclose at the time I make good on my promise, should the aforementioned conditions described transpire.
- Execution of said promise is entirely contingent on Ms. Hayek's willing cooperation. Should Ms. Hayek decline to participate and board members/admins still wish to satisfy the terms of this contract, the REP Thread may be used as a reference for negotiation of a mutually agreed upon substitute. It is the sole responsibility of the enforcers of the agreement to make all necessary contacts and arrangements (monetary and otherwise) for the fulfillment of this promise.
For you rules sticklers, I will clarify a few details:
- By "my", understand that I am hereby legally defining this term as "Selma Hayek's".
- I am using the term "hat" euphemistically to denote an anatomical landmark that I will disclose at the time I make good on my promise, should the aforementioned conditions described transpire.
- Execution of said promise is entirely contingent on Ms. Hayek's willing cooperation. Should Ms. Hayek decline to participate and board members/admins still wish to satisfy the terms of this contract, the REP Thread may be used as a reference for negotiation of a mutually agreed upon substitute. It is the sole responsibility of the enforcers of the agreement to make all necessary contacts and arrangements (monetary and otherwise) for the fulfillment of this promise.
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Xramfan
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[quote=srv5490 post_id=1055635]I'm going to go on record here and say that if Carr gets extended for anything more than $25M per year, I will eat my hat and submit video evidence to this forum as proof.
For you rules sticklers, I will clarify a few details:
- By "my", understand that I am hereby legally defining this term as "Selma Hayek's".
- I am using the term "hat" euphemistically to denote a predetermined anatomical landmark that I will disclose at the time I make good on my promise, should the aforementioned conditions described above transpire.
- Execution of said promise is entirely contingent on Ms. Hayek's willing cooperation. Should Ms. Hayek decline to participate and board members/admins still wish to satisfy the terms of this contract, the REP Thread may be used as a reference for negotiation of a mutually agreed upon substitute. It is the sole responsibility of the enforcers of the agreement to make all necessary contacts and arrangements (monetary and otherwise) for the fulfillment of this promise.[/quote]A friend doesnt leave his wing man so I'll stand with you and match your gamble. I will also add that if Carr is extended I will step off the wagon and get ripped. Proof will be displayed by the sudden change of context in my posting between 1700hrs and when I pass out, oops I mean go to bed.
For you rules sticklers, I will clarify a few details:
- By "my", understand that I am hereby legally defining this term as "Selma Hayek's".
- I am using the term "hat" euphemistically to denote a predetermined anatomical landmark that I will disclose at the time I make good on my promise, should the aforementioned conditions described above transpire.
- Execution of said promise is entirely contingent on Ms. Hayek's willing cooperation. Should Ms. Hayek decline to participate and board members/admins still wish to satisfy the terms of this contract, the REP Thread may be used as a reference for negotiation of a mutually agreed upon substitute. It is the sole responsibility of the enforcers of the agreement to make all necessary contacts and arrangements (monetary and otherwise) for the fulfillment of this promise.[/quote]A friend doesnt leave his wing man so I'll stand with you and match your gamble. I will also add that if Carr is extended I will step off the wagon and get ripped. Proof will be displayed by the sudden change of context in my posting between 1700hrs and when I pass out, oops I mean go to bed.
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srv5490
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[quote=Xramfan post_id=1055637]A friend doesnt leave his wing man so I'll stand with you and match your gamble. I will also add that if Carr is extended I will step off the wagon and get ripped. Proof will be displayed by the sudden change of context in my posting between 1700hrs and when I pass out, oops I mean go to bed.[/quote]Appreciate that, bro. Brings new and deeper meaning to the phrase about who you would trust in a foxhole.